The person who opened the topic is already aware of this. that’s why he wants linear distribution. someone with a single wallet and a lot of labour will never want linear distribution. because even if you have the maximum lxp, with a few sybil wallets (with very little labour) they can earn as much as the reward earned by the maximum wallet
2 Likes
Absolutely correct, as Kanenz highlighted in his responses, a linear system will only favors farmers…i am even surprised he supported this as someone that claimed he wanted a fair system BUT even the data he used for his original post was wrong, he used the statistics for LXPL to analyze LXP. Everyone knows how difficult it is to gain 3k LXPs because for me personally that is the range i fall into and the difficulty increases exponentially, this is not something to debate on, as it can be clearly seen from the distribution. Every successful project always make sure to reward top performers generously, to have to be on the higher rank you have to have completed almost if not all the quest, testnet, private testnet and also bought nfts…it is a lot of dedication
2 Likes
@dfox
I wasn’t sure if you had seen my initial reply to your questions. Including the example scenario I gave at the end of my response. Thought it had some good ideas you might find helpful potentially. A few refinements in later posts here but mostly as it was there in post 23.
Hope you all had a great holiday.
I’ve just finished reading now. I really appreciate the effort you put into your response and the following discussion that took place.
I do share the concern that individuals who joined the voyages later, and are not sybils, should not be excluded in the process of trying to disqualify these industrial farms. It will need to be managed thoughfully.
I will share a post very soon detailing my own personal thoughts on this.
Hello @dfox
Is this the only subject you really like? A suggestion in favour of linear distribution? I’m just curious. Many threads have been opened and you’ve focussed on this one in particular.
Obviously, there is no doubt that this will increase the rewards to be gained by multiple wallets and the elimination of users who have clearly made outstanding efforts.
I have no doubt that you are a really good manipulator. There is an incredibly large difference between 3k lxp and 6k lxp, much more than 2 times.
According to you, someone with 2 accounts and 3k lxp should be the same as someone who earns 6k lxp alone.so imagine that it was very easy to earn 3k lxp and imagine doing it with hundreds of accounts.your suggestions are really cruel enough to destroy the real community.
I’m sure you have a lot of low lxp wallets. This way you want to destroy the users who labour.
1 Like
There is lots of good discussion all over the forum. I’d love to respond in all of them but it’s not feasible; instead I listen and try to guide us towards a solution that is considered fair by the majority of people (accepting that no solution can be perfect). More on this in the coming days.
I don’t personally agree with everything in this thread but the fact that the discussion is happening with thoughtful replies (shout out to @Kanenz as well for the data analysis) is encouraging and healthy imo.
4 Likes
@dfox I’m glad to hear that because the main thing this member defends is the Linear distribution. And no one in their right mind would defend such a distribution. He may be the guardian angel of multi-wallet owners, but he never reflects the community. You can understand this by examining other popular topics.Thank you for your answer. 
nice bro. Linear distribution method will make loyal user unhappy.
Will it be like a post on forum with all aggregated and relevant info regarding latest discussions and viral topics? Or it will be your personal vision? By the way, what do you personally think about thresholds on LXP and multipliers/thresholds for those who came exactly after Dencun upgrade.
I mean, it would be good to have less false positives as possible, but for me the fact that the first few transactions were made long before the 4844 update already speaks of your honest intentions within the ecosystem. For an individual, spending $3 on expensive transactions before the update is a matter of interest, the costs are not that big. I mean if an OG comes and tries something and doesn’t like how expensive the service is, he we’ll return back when fees drop, it’s organic behaviour. But when we talk about huge farms, then every couple of such “testing” transactions for $3 can result in thousands of dollars of unnecessary expenses that could be spent on creating new accounts. Moreover, we all understand perfectly well that after the reduction in the cost of commissions, it was possible to gain almost 1500 LXP for literally $5, which is equivalent to a couple of transactions before 4844. The big problem is not Linea Park, but eather those who came at week 6, without any desire to test the network or with knowledge that it would cost a lot to make “test transactions” on each farm’s account.
As for threshold, I won’t say exact numbers, driven by my personal perception and rationality, but I think it must be implemented. Imagine a big group building a house. Yeah it’s cool if you brought a 1cm rope, but another person brought the entire brick. All people contributed, but when we’re talking about those who will live in that built house with limited capacity and space, I guess 1cm rope won’t be enough. That’s my vision.
Finally, assuming 90% of scripters have less than 2k LXP and came right after the 6th week of Linea Park, it makes sense to play with both of these metrics, adding few bonus points to allow those who came later or who have collected a small portion of LXP to get something, even if their contribution wasn’t enough at its basis.
What do you think? @dfox
The goal of the post will be to aggregate, yes. I am hesitant to share any personal opinions just yet in case it bias the discussion and because I want to remain open-minded. The goal of this experiment (I suppose we can call it that) is to facilitate a general consensus in the community as to what the details should be, so hopefully my opinion is not needed. I think we can already see that there are different groups with interests which is part of the fun of it!
We’re building up a sophisticated data dashboard to help support or invalidate the direction that surfaces from the topic. There is additionally a final sybil analysis taking place. Soon, we will need to begin converging on a decision in preparation for a TGE.
4 Likes
Got you, agree about personal opinions in web3, it’s sometimes better to watch and listen, instead of interfere. Patiently waiting for the post and what will happen next. Linea is the key 
2 Likes
If they completely cut everyone under 2k I would be unaffected and could care less personally.
If they actually do that, you won’t see me crying.
It would benefit ME more to go with a system that rewards ME, and you, and everyone else here with high LXP. Its what I SHOULD be doing for my own maximum rewards right? So why am I not? Because we should all not even have that in our minds if we want Linea to succeed. What should be in our minds is what will make Linea have the best chances to succeed overall. Whatever that is, will bring positive sentiment, and maximizing positive sentiment for ALL of the users is how we actually win.
I have said multiple times that I DO think major modifications under 2k are both healthy and necessary so I don’t get why you think I’m someone with a million low lxp wallets. Why would I be calling for slashing under 1k by half and under 2k by 1/4 (at least) if that was the case? Plus all the bonuses for users with higher lxp, pre-dencun gas, and did all 4 voyages? Thats 3 bonuses you and I would get and low efforts would not, plus they get slashed by some amount.
Maybe its more appropriate to put heavier penalties on any wallet under 2k lxp that doesn’t also have significant pre-dencun gas spend. I’m sure the team will carefully consider all of these things. And like I said they can’t just cut them entirely because why would they make those voyages for people to do if they were just going to shaft them completely? That’s not cool. So they have to get something, the question is what, where is the cutoff, and are there penalties below a certain amount.
Maybe we could set the hard cut over 400, maybe we could set it at like 1500 and make it so you basically had to at least do Park and Culture SZN, which isn’t unreasonable. Of course you and many others would probably like that. But the question is, is that fair, and should we? I think it’s within reason, but some will certainly be left salty. I don’t know, maybe we should really. There are an absurd number of opportune wallets that showed up post dencun. 1500 hard cut or no, I do agree with all of you that there should probably be slashing under 2k to some degree and probably harder cuts the lower down that curve. Perhaps a higher hard cut is also appropriate. A 1500 hard cut would probably also eliminate pretty much all industrial sybils as well and make that point fairly moot and well taken care of I would think. My 400 hard cut example was on the very nice end and if they wanted to include users that did just Culture but really 1k minimum at least for a hard cut should probably be set, Culture was really easy and cutting basically just those users is still very fair I think and 1500 is arguably reasonable too really as anyone that did most of Park + Culture would still make it. Wherever they set the hard cut, anything under 2k can still be slashed and probably should be. And as I said before, it’s mainly over 2k where I have an issue with major tiers, but maybe over 4 or 5k really does deserve a bit higher of a tier, I just don’t think 2x/3x/5x tiers are appropriate. Like 6k getting 5x as much as 3k, that just doesn’t seem right at all, I think over 2 to 3k it should pretty much be mostly linear and especially over 4 or 5k it should be mostly linear.
I think the biggest factor of all really will be how much % of the total supply they give to LXP. If they did like 15-20% or more to just LXP and it was mostly linear over somewhere between 2k to 4k I don’t think there is any way everyone wouldn’t be extremely happy regardless and really set Linea in stone as one of the greatest drops ever, which pretty much also equals long term success via sentiment imho.
1 Like
The idea of any innovation is to get some positive effect from it. You are talking about 400 LXP, knowing that SZN was easily farmed by softs and could guarantee 495 LXP. 90% of sybils got these 495 for around 1-2$ per each account, easily passing the mark you suggested. If you now give me an argument about the presence of real users in the range from 400 LXP to 1000, then I will tell you this: do you really want to say that a contribution of 401 LXP is enough to be eligible for anything at all? This is banal 1 campaign in voyage or 2 campaigns from partners.
The number of wallets and the cumulative amount of LXP up to 400 LXP is negligible, you will literally, at best, remove only lazy farmers and people who didn’t care about the network.
You need to come up with numbers not at random, not because you liked this number, but back it up with statistics. 40% of wallets sit up to 1500 LXP, so they need to be removed. Let’s remove altruism and not complain, there can be no talk of 100% fairness in the PvP market like crypto. Those with small amount LXP on wallets did not make enough contribution in the first season of the distribution, so let them be given a bonus in the second season for their insufficient efforts to be eligble in the first one. It’s simple. You can’t make 1.3 million people happy.
Sorry, but if you haven’t collected 1500 LXP, then you are either lazy, or flew late to FOMO and speculations, and did not have time to collect enough LXP. It’s basically SZN + Park without any other partner campaigns.
The cut off MUST be somewhere between 1500-2000 as the majority of loyal community wish. It will eliminate tons of sybils. If you’re still worried abour real people, than introduce some bonus points which can “save from not being eligible”. If you had genuine interest in the network you would 100% make at least 1-2 txns before 4844. Realising fees are too high for you, you would return back later after eip4844. It was expensive for farmers to do even 1-2 transactions before eip on their farms, but for real user spending 2-3$ on fees for testing purposes and coming back after Dencun is an organic behaviour
You have 2k LXP and 0 txns before 4844? - Eligible
You have 1.5 LXP (or 1k LXP, as you wish) and 5-10 txns before 4844? - Eligible
You see, I don’t want to eliminate all people in the range 1500-2000. I allow those with 1500 who came pre-Dencun be eligible, even if the cut off is set at 2k. This is just one criteria, there can be many to leave less false positives as possible
But 400 LXP cut off is a pure nonsense with almost 0 impact and any logic. Even proposed slashing is looking bad, when we are 100% sure that most sybils are in the range <2k and we don’t want to reward them. 1/4 slashing made me laugh. 10k accounts farms will also laugh at you. It’s basically -25% of their rewards which they will compensate becuase of their software which allow them to collect tokens and sell them first on CEX. No no no, and again NO, there must be no slashing or any other similar idea. Only 100% rewards with 100% cut off. Your slashing will change nothing for sybils, destroying decentralisation!
6 Likes
I’m sure this person has a lot of low lxp wallets 
no one in their right mind would go to such lengths to try to make sybils rich.
The fact that he constantly says that his score is not low is psychological evidence of this. If your score is not low, why do you want hundreds of thousands of sybils with lower scores than you to earn money. Can someone explain to me the logic here? Why is a person hostile to his own efforts?
*There is one issue that these people are missing. Have the people who only come with Lineapark and earn 1500-2000lxp really made enough effort, even if they are not sybil? So should we give half of the whole share to all these people with low lxp so that people who really make an effort can earn a few cents? *
It’s not hard to organise a 2nd season for people with low lxp points, if they are not sybils they will try to increase their points.
2 Likes
Exactly, mate ! It’s like entering into an argument with the words, you know, I don’t have this thing… but I’ll probably stand up for it. You won’t spend your time defending someone’s interests except yours. The most loyal part of the community with good amount of LXP in the wallets would never ever propose <1.5LXP, I’m not even talking about 400 LXP.
I’m in top 3k LXP holders, and I don’t ask for 5k cut off, even if it damages my personal reward. I do realise lots of real people will suffer destroying the vibes into community. But come on ! 400 LXP ? 1500 LXP with 1/4 slashing ? 
This man is really laughing at us. Okay, let’s make it 0-1500 cut off, 2000 may sound too cruel, but 400 LXP is a complete sybil defending proposal
2 Likes
2nd season is good imo. Give starting advantages to those who came too late for season 1 with lox LXP balance, and it will be fair. More rewards for OGs, less rewards for sybils sub 1.5k
1 Like
Try to change the way you think…
Look at it this way, not how much lxp someone has accumulated but the place they occupy in the overall ranking.
A person with 4k lxp will be ranked at approximately 100 thousand positions and a person with 8k lxp at position 1000.
He is higher than a person with 4k lxp by 99,000 places.
Do you still think she should only get 2x the award?
The ranking is tight, there was a lot of competition, every truly committed user fought to be as high as possible.
Farms sybil cared not about the place in the ranking, but to get as much lxp adding up from xx accounts.
Tiers should be applied
the algorithm is simple
the lower the number of lxp on the wallet = higher probability of sybil account
If linea conducts a linear drop will satisfy sybil,if tiers happy will be mostly real and unique users.
blue or red pill?
2 Likes
All these people did was buy up the NFT testnet from the market.
Where did the figure of 100,000 people come from? Let’s operate with facts, not fantasies.
no fantasies,just statistics
everything is shown on DUNE
wallets with 4k or more lxp we have 131,188 thousand, which means that the last wallet with the least amount of lxp in this range (i.e. 4000 lxp) ranks 131,188th
wallets with 8k and more we have 1324.
“All these people did was buy up the NFT testnet from the market.”
the information that every nft will be scored lxp was available from the beginning rallying every committed and active participant following DC and X Linea could benefit from this information.
And the money didn’t make a significant difference because portfolios having hundreds of the same nfts didn’t scale lxp at a 1-to-1 ratio.