Hey sorry it’s taken me so long to get back to you.
And thank you, I did actually put a heck of a lot of time into writing all of that, trying to get it all written in a way that was pretty clear and actually somewhat well organized.
To address your specific questions, I may need a bit of clarification.
Q1: “What would your opinion be on a lower minimum LXP threshold if there were a multiplier to account for pre-Dencun tasks with higher gas fees?”
A1: I think what you are saying here is, what if the minimum LXP threshold was lower, ie 1000xp, or maybe even less, however there be a bonus of some sort for users that spent gas pre Dencun?
Perhaps this is fine. I guess there are a lot of nuances and ways you could do a minimum and maybe even different minimums depending on what a user participated in.
If a minimum of say 500 was set, that might exclude anyone that only did nft season. I don’t see a huge problem with that, but, perhaps this lower sub 1000 lxp area could be one of the only areas where there ARE dramatic effects on lxp.
One possible idea:
-Sub 400 lxp cut regardless. This would still include NFT season participants that did all but a few
-Over 400 but Sub 1000 lxp, reduced to 1/2 effectively, UNLESS, user gained at least 500 during Main net alone.
Options 2:
IMHO personally think sub 1000 should probably be cut regardless. Sub 1000 is pretty relatively low effort really, and theoretically would include the most would be botters.
Exception - again only main net participants with 500+ or if you wanted to be nice, all pre-dencun although main net voyage itself had crazy high gas while the start of park was high still but not as high, iirc was about half.
Then, if you also wanted there to be a bonus to pre-dencun transactions, which I think is totally fair, I would say again put it in the total 10% bonus bin, and assign whatever percentage of the max 10% you wanted to that particular bonus, or make it the only bonus.
If you really wanted to push the bonuses allocation, you could probably go with 15% of the total, but I would definitely not go past 20% at the absolute maximum. I think 10% is safu if you wanted to do bonuses for whatever is chosen, 15% is pushing it a bit, and 20 I think is the absolute max before serious butthurt and fud starts happening from too many affected, and I also think its rather unfair anyway as LXP was already distributed evenly, flat, and was never said it wouldn’t be. Any bonuses and rejiggering at all, is technically, kind of not cool as it is really. It SHOULD be totally flat and as is, but some bonuses for certain things is probably fine again so long as the total is kept fairly low to 0 to 10% safu, or 15% to 20 max. The potential bonus that does make the most sense of all probably is pre-dencun gas though and I tend to agree if bonuses are to be applied that is a good one and makes logical sense.
Again just to be clear what I mean about how these bonuses affect the total LXP supply:
IE, if current total LXP supply = 100%, take 90 to 100% and distribute it flat, linear, as is 1 lxp = .9 to 1 lxp.
Then take 0 to 10% and redistribute to certain chosen bonuses.
Or go beyond 10% to an absolute max of 20%, 80% flat linear to all / 20% to chosen bonuses.
Question 2:
“Also, how does your total airdrop allocation as a %age consider launch FDV?”
I’m not sure what you are asking exactly here? OH, ok maybe I sort of get what you are asking here.
My calc doesn’t account for valuation at all. Its a function only of the total percentage of the token itself. Valuation is not accounted for, and I don’t think it should be. If you do it that way and be like, well 5% is a lot guys because FDV=X, I don’t think its gonna go well… High probability its just gonna dump and stay dumped… Because low float is flatly rejected now broadly. Nobody likes it anymore and its reflected in every project that releases only a tiny amount to the community. Perhaps you are already well aware of this and I’m preaching to the choir. It seems the vast majority of projects that do well, drop a minimum of 10%+ of the total token supply to the community (and I would say to just LXP btw, LXP-L a separate smaller %), and this has actually been steadily increasing, pretty much the higher it is the greater your chance of overall success for some time now. Hyper is of course a shining example and there are others recently who have done 20 to 30% and done amazing. Projects have been rewarded for rewarding the users. And not paying any CEXs was a great move as well really, they are often predatory and just suck funds away from the project and users anyway. Of course this doesn’t work out well for projects that don’t have demand, but it works out fantastically for ones that do, CEXs have to buy if they want to list and that’s good for the project and the users both. I think Linea would likely be fine going this route, you’ll just have to be very sure the dexs that you list on and the liquidity you provide are very trusted.
Dfox Reply to another user:
“A potential multiplier would need to be for LXP that was earned from mainnet activity when the gas fees were higher to be fair. I don’t see how the NFT LXP for testnet or secondary market purchases falls into that without becoming a loophole.”
Definitely a bit of a rabbit hole there, the greater the amount of “bonuses” that are applied the more it skews the value of the LXP from purchased NFTs. This would be another reason I would say to keep the bonus percentage of the total lxp fairly low. 10% safu. 20% absolute maxu. NFT holders will be butthurt about 20% though I’m sure on top of already getting shafted from stacking, that was rather uncool objectively. They already got penalized in essence, getting penalized in essence twice would extra suck. Maybe create a “bonus” criterion to account for NFT holders that had 2 or more nfts and give them something back of the bonus pie to equal it back out just so that at least the extra bonuses aren’t further rekting the effective lxp value of their nft purchases beyond the shafting they already took.
Perhaps they were referring to buying NFTs before Park was announced, which, again objectively would have super sucked. Kind of iffy whether its appropriate to do anything there I guess, again if anything, it could be put in the bonus bin and a percentage applied.
User 1505’s concerns
This is why I think 0 to 10% for all bonuses of the total LXP pie is appropriate - bonuses will exist but smol enough that users aren’t turbo butthurt about one thing or another.
As for their min 2k lxp comment, I think its the maximum # that is fair for a cutoff, but within reason. Personally think 1k to 2k is a reasonable cutoff, maybe 1500 is fair, and there be an exception for users who participated in main net, their cutoff be 500 or 1000 respectively maybe.
And a bonus to pre-dencun gas is again I think fair and logical, but keep it 0 to 15% of the total lxp pie max to avoid too much late comer crying.
On the flip side there is cutoff crying for those that don’t qualify, 1k to 1500 seems very reasonable to me, main net voyagers exception of 500+, and if you really want to be super nice, maybe cutoff 400 but under 1k/1.5k/2k = get slashed by 1/4 to 1/2 unless 500+ from main net.
Seia
"Linear distribution of rewards is not a good idea in my opinion.
The most engaged people (psychotic lxp hodlers as Chris called them;)) should be properly, well rewarded.
During the linear drop, sybil farms with an average amount of lxp where the campaign did not need to be polished will feel good…"
-NO. This is the thinking that will ruin everything. Favor 1% of your users and sacrifice the other 99%. Oh and don’t forget to assume and call them all sybil when you do. Great idea. Better hurry up and identify those 20k “real” users that will power the entire chain in the future right? Yeah… Didn’t someone do that recently? Seems like they did, can’t put my finger on it…
Why not say f*** everyone but frogs? Because that’s how you put the final nail in the coffin is listening to s### like this.
Quark
“You should also consider that a significant portion of Linea Park activities occurred before the update, and many users utilized Linea for their own purposes prior to 4844 without participating in specific programs. Therefore, it would be more reasonable to introduce a multiplier not just for LXP earned before the update, but a general multiplier applied if, for example, a user has completed at least 10 transactions before the implementation of the Dencun update.”
This is a tough caveat and kind of valid, I would say you could most easily address this in the “bonus” 0 to 20% bin. Assign a percentage to this and apply it to ALL transactions, voyage or otherwise pre-dencun. This would be the single bonus that accounts for chain usage outside of the voyages and pre-dencum definitely makes the most sense here to count. Still this bonus can be applied only to voyagers who qualify with the chosen mimimum lxp amount overall for participating in the voyages as well.
Kanenz
“Linea distribution for lxp makes no sense”
“So ,
1.there should be tired system for lxp.”
No. What makes no sense is NOT making it linear. What DOES make sense IS linear, as it has already been distributed fairly. There are very few that want these tiers and its these high horse elitists, I think the team is probably well aware of that though and smarter. Doing this = doom. Its really that simple. Again this is favoring the 1% over the 99%. I’m sure that 1% that wants all the lxp to themselves will power the entire chain totally on their own later. Yup. Worked out great for zk right? I wonder why Hyper didn’t do a mega tier system to only favor those with the most points? I mean clearly they are the only ones that weren’t sybils right? …
Kanenz
“2.There should be a multiplyer for x transactions before the fees was reduced .
3.A minimum lxps should be applied after the multipyer.”
- two: sure, this is fine, don’t make it dramatic, this is why I suggest 0 to 10% of the total lxp to all bonuses combined.
- three: sure, this is also fine if a cutoff is what is implied here, multiple examples are outlined above to help consider.
There seem to be a lot of concern about “industrial sybils”, but the team already implemented POH and has been filtering the automated clusters they could find. (Maybe also look for wallets that have zero activity on any chain period since culture szn, those can probably be safely cut as well and might actually be sybils. Zero trx on ANY chain? IE: linea, zk, scroll, arb, op, eth, ftm, avax, poly post Culture SZN? A zero on all chains, any of those out there would be a safe cut too I would say and probably actual industrial.)
Some are always going to slip through but I will say again I do think this would have been difficult in linea’s case especially. There were hundreds and hundreds of individual tasks, the vast majority having many individual steps to them. I’m really not familiar with whatever tools may be out there but it just seems kind of ridiculous to me that someone could have mass automated very many of those tasks. Could a human do multiple? Maybe, although I myself spent multiple evenings on a single task that refused to work sometimes, sometimes even multiple evenings for a single task. Culture SZN I would think probably would have been the easiest of all to automate potentially but really the only one. Everything else I think would have been dramatically more difficult for the most part. Some level of a cutoff is probably appropriate but the higher it is the more genuine users will be unfortunately cut out of course. And every real user that is cut is likely to feel bad about their experience and less likely to use the chain in the future.
I have over 5500 LXP but I can still think objectively about what is best for the project overall and retaining users is that. I could say hey, yeah lets do a giant bonus for users over 5k lxp and cutoff everyone under 4k, clearly they are all sybils anyway! But would that objectively be what’s best for retaining the most users and maximizing the positive sentiment potential of all users the most we can? Of course not. Users over 5500 is a minority, and just us “elite” aren’t going to power the chain ourselves.
By Dfox’s first comments it seems the team is pretty aware of this and that is encouraging. There seems to be a better finger on the pulse so to speak for a while now. A low barrier of entry is probably approriate, otherwise, why would someone have even participated in culture szn or park at all? It objectively would feel bad to have done even just those and get totally shafted.
-A <400 cutoff accounts for late comers that only did Culture Szn to still be included.
-The 400+ to X (X = 1000 to 2000 probably appropriate) range could be the ONLY range where significant slashing adjustments are made beyond 20%
-Main net users 500+ immune to slashing effects (or pre dencun if you really want to be nice)
-Another criterion could be created, at least 1 trx on literally any evm compatible chain post culture szn, or be disqualified with option of (X) lxp = immune regardless, or no lxp threshold option hard rule, at least 1 trx on any chain post culture szn or get rekt.
These are very reasonable criterion.
-80 to 100% flat LXP distribution makes the most logical sense imho. 0 to 20% assigned for all possible bonuses, 10% safu, 20% max.
Lastly, another new quick maffs example of bonus options and criterion.
<400 LXP are excluded entirely.
<1k LXP users are qualified but slashed by 1/2
<2k LXP users are qualified but slashed by 1/4 (or 1500)
And also any user that doesn’t have at least 1 trx on any evm chain post culture szn is also excluded.
Lets say 15% is now chosen for all bonuses.
Total LXP supply (lets say it is 1 billion again)
1B x 1.15 = 1.15 billion new LXP supply number
85% / 1B of all LXP is distributed 1 to 1 as normal. 1 billion here.
(*Edit: After thinking about it a little more, I don’t think cutoff changes this total at all and neither does slash/reduction, just who gets it.)
-the cutoff part is easy, they are simply excluded.
-If a slash / reduction range is chosen, whatever they are reduced by goes instead to all others.
-total remains 85% either way.
15% / 150 million assigned in total to all bonuses.
Bonuses chosen example scenario:
Bonus 1. Pre-Dencun bonus - 6% of the 15% - Counts all gas pre-dencun, voyage or regular chain use, for all qualifying voyagers
Bonus 2. We love the frogs - 1% of the 15% - all efrog holders given this bonus, smol enough overall, but significant to the very few.
Bonus 3. Voyage Maxi - 4% of the 15% - took part in testnet, main net, park, and culture
Bonus 4. Random obscure thing only 5k people did - 0% - just don’t lol.
Bonus 5. LXP Maxi - 5k+ LXP - 3% of the 15%
Bonus 6. NFT 2+ holder - x% of the 15% - try to balance this such that they just aren’t taking a further hit than they already have.
Bonus 7. NFT pre Park announcement buyer (& holder) - sorry you got shafted here’s an extra 1%
*Possible bonuses to slashers may apply and is fine if they qualify.
Of course you / the team may think other bonuses may be appropriate, simply adjust percentage or add whatever other bonuses you feel are logical. All bonuses combined = 15% or less of total LXP supply in this example.